brb, quitting my job to grind my char 23/7.

cant wait for all the recruiting ads that demand perfect gunnery/drones/missile skills for recruitment

here is the reason i log in to play the game: i want to play the game.

did you know that you can buy and sell characters?

OP,

Go back to WoW

and NO to your idea, some of us have Real Jobs & can't play 24/7.

Eve's skill progression is fair to all types of players unlike all the other games out their that it depends on how much you play is how much you skill up.

Once again, NO to your idea

here is what you need to do before you can start having fun in this game: log in.

oh all right, i'm done slapping you around. it's like kicking a puppy really.... here is some good advice: you do not need more than a few hundred thousand SP to get into pvp. just buy a cheap frigate, go out there and try to kill someone. much of faction warfare takes place in frigates and most nullsec entities will accept promising newbies. then there are specialized corps like eve university and brave newbies that are explicitly there to help new players get into pvp.
your mind set is tainted by other mmos. you should forget everything you learned and start learning eve from scratch. you will soon notice that this game is interesting and fun on a completely different level.

How is killing red crosses making you better at mining or industry?
Also by your idea: how will you balance SP gain for PvP kills? If you make it loss-dependent (the only factor you can use) - it'll become Plex for SP feature.

By buying character worth 500 pounds you lost several years of fun of developing your own

i'm done with this guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLT6BryzYpQ
Thats your suggestion in a nutshell. Is it fun playing game this way? Well, certainly not for me and not for a lot of other players i think.

OP, I think the core of your problem is that you define this game by it's PVE content. "Actually play the game" is not only running missions or ratting. There so much more to do and experiment with!

You got bored with missions. Currently missions earn you ISK+LP, or cherry+cream. Earning choco crisps on top will not give your appetite back.

AND it is against one of the fundamental aspects of this game.... so no, thanks.

Perhaps you can start by telling us what it takes 18 months to do. I can't think of anything other than cap ships, which aren't intended for noobs anyway.

This is an awful idea, full stop, and there isn't an argument in the world that can change that.

Hell no. We do not need an SP grind mechanic in Eve. The lack of having to grind, one of the best things about Eve's SP system. There was an SP grind system in the game at one time, but it was abused. Just like your idea would be abused.

If you are really that focused on bypassing the learning how to play stage, then use the current time bypass, either grind or trade for lots of ISK and buy a high SP char.

You still need to define "anywhere". There's a ton of things to do in this game that require little to no SP. Open your mind a bit. I remember being a noob... there were a lot of barriers to get over, but SP was never one of them.

I think this is the worst idea I've seen in this section....

I smell a troll.

Buy implants, use neural remaps but FFS leave the Skillpoint progression system ALONE. Inject Patience 5 or Advanced Patience Techniques but the unanimous outcry that this idea is terribad warrants no further discussion.



If you cannot find a reason a play, THEN GIVE ME ALL YOUR ISK AND STOP THIS NON-SENSE.

It isn't the developers job to inspire you to play EVE, it's their job to provide the tools which makes playing EVE inspiring. Sheesh.

Corporations set minimum SP requirements because they want their members to have a certain level of game experience, and SP is a convenient way to approximate that. There's nothing magical about the particular number they give. If a corp requires 15 million SP to join, and CCP starts giving out 5 million free SP to new players, then the corporation will probably raise the minimum to 20 million. If you ask them what actual skills they require, you'll find that the SP count of that is significantly less.


Often corps will have (or be affiliated with) a separate noob training corp. Talk to their recruiters and ask where they would recommend you start.

heh, you believe SP equates to skill :)

You believe it's a good idea, I don't. In fact I think it's the worst idea I've seen on these forums recently.

heh, you believe SP equates to skill :)

But you seem not to know what you're saying anyway. Why would you sit in a station for 18 months simply training? The whole idea is to be using and learning to use the equipment as you get it.

Plus I have a feeling you think level 5 is the only option here, it's not. It takes 71 days of none optimized attributes to get into a Maelstrom, it takes a total of 163 days to do that with tech 2 guns.

It's the only explanation for such a terrible idea.

1) Because you think Mission grinding is a good idea.
2) You think more spare time should give you an advantage over others in progression.
3) It's the mindset of an theme park MMO, immature mind.
4) You have no imagination to play your own way, so you want everyone to play YOUR way.

Want me to continue?

i like how you try to help new players by forcing both new and old players into running missions (arguably the most boring part of the game)...

You're lack of insight into this game and it's meta is depressing. If you cannot find a reason to enjoy EVE then seriously, stop playing. CCP has created an excellent product with excellent tools that in of themselves are inspiring to utilize. It is [never] their job to inspire anyone but themselves so that they keep creating tools that inspire us when we use them. If you can't enjoy EVE with simple frigates and destroyers than you have no business flying anything else. Please mail me when (I doubt you'll be playing still) you get a shiny battleship because I will thoroughly enjoy taking it away from you in a ship that took 3 weeks to skill into.

The last time someone suggested this it got a resounding NO in response.

This time it has got a resounding NO in response.

As for me, that would be a NO.

CCP have made a fair skill progression system that never allows a player to max out and allows all players to progress equally irrespective of their playing styles. There is always something to learn. Your idea would force people to grind missions. A lot of players don't do missions (or any of the content you suggest SP should be awarded for) at all which would put them at a distinct disadvantage to other players.

I'm not suggesting that this should be done but consider, hyperthetically, if rather than getting sp for doing missions (ratting, mining etc) you got sp just for killing players. How would that be for you as a mission runner? Would you find that acceptable and fair? Better still, would you like to be forced into doing pvp just so you could "keep up" with the other players' sp gains?

Not if they enjoy running missions, mining, trading, or ratting.


People are going to feel like they have to be grinding SP to keep up, which will force them into doing something they don't really want to be doing, which would lower their enjoyment of the game. Sure, they could just not do the grinding, but then they would feel like they're falling behind, which will also reduce their enjoyment of the game. It's pretty much a no-win situation... you have to run the treadmill just to keep up. That's not fun.


Meh. Tired old argument that doesn't really hold water when you're being given lots of legitimate reasons why this is actually bad for the game (not just for vets).


You're choosing the wrong standards.

My last comment before I wash my hands of this insanity is.. think about this.

We just saw EVE reach it's 10th birthday. And over that ten year span, from what I understand, EVE has never seen a drop in player base. It has continuously grown and grown over the years. To the point that China even now has their own private server, Serenity. (Something to do with chinese laws or population, I don't know or care to be frank.)

Forgiving the Incarna incident, CCP has not only made a game that is capable of spanning an entire decade (something WoW hasn't claimed yet) they have shown they are capable of creating something with longevity and consequence. I have never played a game that has made my heart race like EVE does and I would suck **** to keep it that way.

Why attempt to fix something that is not broken?

A grinding mechanic would wreck the PvP landscape forever. There would be none because everyone would constantly be grinding to keep up with one another. Stagnation and death and I won't have any of it.

I don't think anyone will disagree that CCP could be doing a better job getting new players to stick with the game. SP just isn't the right way to do it.

I'm not completely opposed to the idea (only 95% opposed), but think it would have to have a cap on how much you could gain both in total and per [day/week/etc]. The problem, as others have stated, is that this becomes a daily/weekly/etc grind that, in my opinion, made WoW awful. I don't want to run ****** daily missions to get xxx SP, because it feels like an obligation, like you're wasting that SP if you don't do the mission each and every day.

The only thing I could really support would be relatively small SP rewards for new players completing the tutorial missions. Finish all the tutorial missions, hopefully get an idea of what aspect of the game interests you, and get a one-time 20,000 SP reward to allocate toward skills that interest.

But grinding missions for SP....no.

They've also done some work on the new player tutorials, but I'm sure there's more they can do. Threads like this point to the problem that they're not doing very well at showing new players what they can do with their low SP while skilling up for bigger and better things. They have a fine line to walk, as they can't do too much hand-holding without breaking the sandbox, but I think more effort could be put into how exactly new players get handed off from the tutorials to the universe at large.

Translation: eve is still dying.

News at 11.

You're making the same category of mistake now that you did when you first started playing.

EVE has grown every year since it launched. Why is it going to die if you don't get what you want?

I dont know, I think this would work with one off starter tutorial missions pretty well myself, it would give new players a nice incentive

The main problem with giving new players lots of skillpoints before they have a clue what they should be doing with them is that they'll put it into mining in the first few days and then decide they want to exclusively do combat or vice versa. Then they complain because they're stuck with their SP in something they don't want.

With the way it is at the moment, and also the way it has been for all of us for the last 10 years, messing up your sp for 10 days or so till you work out what the heck you're doing isn't too much of a pain.

If you gave new players 3mill sp which they put into things they eventually wouldn't need and then slow their sp gain down to normal you'd get more rage quits than you do because the sp gain isn't as high as you'd like, imo.

You're missing the point. Older vet don't need to "swallow" anything; your idea would advantage people who already know how to grind efficiently: old players and their alts. Not new players. The "competion" new players versus old players exsist only in your mind. And your idea is not related to this.

The competion evenually is among grinding playstyle and free playstyle. And you want to reward the first and forcing people to grind or get penalized.
Grinding is already strongly rewarded with ISK (ISK=more implants to skill faster, more ship and advanced modules to compete and so on).

SP for grinding can only ruin new player experience, negating them one of the most important value of EVE gameplay: freedom. And btw new players already get a long time of double SP.




Simply there's no problem to fix or soution to find. Solution for what? EVE skil system is nearly perfect.

It doesnt need to be as complicated as people make out, there are skills in eve that all players use (like engineering for instance) but it would help ease the process of tutorial training.

"heres a skillbook, train it for the mission im about to give you" new player has to wait for 5 minutes
vs
"Use these skillpoints to train x skill for this mission i'm about to give youo player can undock and run the mission

I honestly would prefer to see better informed and higher sp new players than the norm, even down to having the first tutorial being all about skills and how to use implants and jump clones maybe even giving new players their first jump clone.

player knowledge > skill points

The issue isn't telling people not to grind. The issue is forcing people into grinding to keep up with everyone else.

Could you answer this for me please: If most of the players didn't have a problem with the SP progression system that's been in place for the last 10 years why has it suddenly become a problem now? What's changed that means that this proposed modification to the skill progression system needs to be made now?

I'd love to know the ages of the people who think it's a good idea. I do wonder whether it's simply a change in the way people think about what they're entitled to. It's been mooted that the younger generation have a much stronger feeling of entitlement, a shorter attention span, less patience and a much stronger wish for instant gratification than older generations. I've read several articles regarding this over the last year.

In the past when you created a charcter you had also to select a education/profesional profile for him. Like "trader" "covert ops specialist" (I don't remember now how what they was exactly) and such. And you started with some milions SP already allocated in the base skills for that profile (again, I don't remember exaclty how much was).

Later they changed this system with the argument (correct) that a new player needed to know what to do to allocate points properly. So they removed this and to compensate added a doubled SP for the first milions (again, not sure how much) of SP. Is not like you see some flashy halo or a buff icon, simply your SP progress requires half of the time. I don't think they removed this.

Also, almost any aspect of the game already has a very low SP barrier and could theorically accessed after few weeks. What make things hard for a new comer is not the SP barrier but the knowledge barrier: the game is complicated and the learning curve is harsh.

The knowledge required to do something is always higher than the SP required.